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This talk page is only for discussing improvements to the page "Crowley".
It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article. Please use the forums for these purposes.

I could be wrong, but if you use the response, "I'm just looking to trade a drink for some gossip", when first talking to Crowley, this seems to cut off any option to get the You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head quest in the future.

When you speak to him after this, you only have one question about underworld available.

I don't know if some other event will allow you to discuss it again or if waiting a day or two will make a difference, (I waited 8 hours to talk to him again).

Blahguy 10:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


I had the lawbringer perk and used the mesmetron to make Crowley hostile so me and Charon could kill him without underworld attacking us. When i landed the killing blow,Crowley had a finger on his corpse. Anyone else had that happen? ~The Anonymous User

I found no need to turn him hostile. As soon as I had given him the keys and he left Underworld (still in the museum foyer), I (ironically, perhaps?) headshot Mister Crowley with a Sneak Attack Critical. There was no karma loss and there was a finger on his corpse. Willow was not hostile upon leaving the museum.

Moved from Article

  • He is known to show up randomly in the Ninth Circle (and possibly elsewhere in the Underworld) and attack you if you took the T-51b Power Armor. If he hits you, all ghouls in the room will become hostile and attack you as well (not sure if this is because I have a follower or just because I got hit and initiate combat with him/them). He has done this about three times to me now (each prompting reloads so I didn't have to deal with it), though Charon did not attack me after I bought his contract. Sydney did not seem to attack me (I couldn't see her through the crowd, she may help you or just not do anything), just the residents that were in the room. If he misses and your follower attacks, the other residents will only attack your follower (in my case it is Star Paladin Cross) until you get hit or start fighting.
    • He just attacked in the Underworld Concourse, prompting all the residents (including Cerberus) to attack me. Killed him, left to the Mall, fast traveled to Rivet City and slept for 3+ days to see if they would forget. They did, and are now neutral/friendly. So if this happens, just kill Crowley and leave for a few days. He had all the keys I gave him from the You Gotta Shoot 'Em In The Head quest on his corpse, but everything else on his person disappeared from my inventory (I hit take all and ran out of the Underworld). His body is also gone. So in short: Kill him when you see him if he is hostile, and then quickly run away if it happened in the Underworld (alternatively, I guess you could just kill everyone). The only...downside, if you can call it that, is Three Dog complaining about the murder, since it happened in the Underworld itself. No other downsides apparent.
    • What I did, making it easy to but considering I had a kind of luck, was giving Mister Crowley all of the keys, and then let him retrieve the armor.

I was checking Underworld some days later and he was there sitting in Carol's Place with the T-51b Power Armor. (Hint: Don't take a company when you are doing this, because your company will attack other residents as they are becoming hostile when you kill Mister Crowley.) Kill him, take some stuff off him you can carry (If you don't have enough space to carry the T-51b Power Armor then just leave it there and come back for it later) and leave Underworld, go to the Mall and fast travel to a place where you can sleep or wait. I came back in 3 days and the residents weren't hostile anymore and his body was still lying there and got myself that armor.

The above is all discussion, with duplicate information, and most certainly not written in a manner fit for an article. Some information can be extracted and incorporated, but this is obviously discussion, not an informative article, given that it's in first person and clearly reads like two people having a discussion. --DarkJeff 20:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Not a glitch but an annoying AI issue

If you begin this quest after completing the "waters of life" part of the main quest the Jefferson memorial area is secured by the enclave. Then, it is possible Mr Crowley don't find his way and spend a whole night swimming back and forth near the memorial and sometimes ends just standing still in the middle of the water. Of course you can't just wait on the bank because you could lose him, but it can take hours (real time hours) for him to find his way. If he stays in the waters not moving anymore you can just get close to him and "push" him in the right direction. It can take some time but it works. Best so save the game just past the supermutants camp near Rivet City if it takes too long at Jefferson memorial because sometimes he find his way quickly, just after 2 or 3 tries swimming. Same problem with the slavers of Lincoln Memorial if you reveal them the location of Temple of union. Sometimes Leroy swims for hours.

Another problem when doing this quest late in the game are the supermutants on a high bridge and the raiders camp, both with missile launchers. They seem able to launch 5 or 6 missiles in a row but you can't shoot them easily before the NPC is killed(Also annoying when following James and even more annoying with the slavers). If someone has a solution other than using the console to deal with the situation, please post. Croquignol 04:40, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


I decided to take use the trick of opening all the doors before giving him the key. After that I woke up in my Megaton home to find him in my living room, observing the apparatus by the door. For some reason he didn't decide to kill me in my sleep or take the armour from the locker just steps away from where he was standing.

After wards I found the sheriff, Lucas Simms, dead near the entrance of the town. I don't know how exactly he died, but I speculate that Crowley killed him on his way in.

Crowley stalked me when I used that method too, first I saw him in the distance from Rivet City, he was hostile but he didn't move so I decided not to bother him. Then later he showed up in Megaton, where rather than killing him I used a stealth boy and pickpocketed him ammo (I decided not to kill him, a ghoul stalker with a knife seemed like an interesting thing to add to the game). Then later on I was waiting behind Dukov's place when he interupted me. Finally during the first mission of Broken Steel he showed up after I came back out of the building where you get the data. For one reason or another he turned non-hostile and I tried talking to him, at which point he gave me his dialouge of thanking me for the keys. He walked off into the distance and I never saw him again. Although if I actually ever bothered to go back to Underworld I guess I might find him there. Jpyo 16:57, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

- It is probably not related to Crowley. Lucas Simms is often found dead for no apparent reason in megaton or just outside the city gate. Lucy West, Walter and some other citizen are sometimes found dead in the city, too. Perhaps something in the water...Croquignol 19:19, January 25, 2010 (UTC)


During my first playthrough, I came across Crowley with the armor in Underworld, (of course being pissed off since I gave him the keys) I killed him, and none of the other Ghouls cared at all! I even checked and I didn't lose any karma. So I looted the keys and the armor, gave the armor to Charon to preserve it (since I can't do anything with it at the moment), and continued on my merry way.

This occured on 360.

It's not a glitch. After you give Crowley the keys, he'll take off towards Fort Constatine and get the armor. People have encountered him walking back from Constantine with the armor on. This is what he's been after and now he's finally got his prize.--KnightNapier 01:20, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning up this page

Much of the info here is either duplicated on or would better fit on the You Gotta Shoot 'Em In The Head page. Any input before I begin major edits?--Gothemasticator 20:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Question: The article states that Crowley cannot be mezzed, but the quest article states a couple of times that he can. Anyone know for sure which is correct?

Question: I think the Crowley's Journey section should be moved to the quest article. It's interesting info; I just think it belongs better on the other page. Thoughts?--Gothemasticator 20:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Mezzing Crowley

Anyone know for sure whether he can be mezzed or not? The info is inconsistent, and it would be nice to get the facts straight.--Gothemasticator 19:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I got it now. Using the Mesmetron on Crowley causes frenzy or death. He can't be enslaved. Article is fine.--Gothemasticator 22:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Moved from article: Tips for following Crowley

I moved the following section from the main page. Many characters journey to their goals during a quest (the freed slaves, Dad, etc.). It's interesting, though, so I'll put it here.--Gothemasticator 21:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

After you complete "You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head" by giving all the keys to Crowley, talk to him, and he'll say that he is preparing for a long trip. If you keep following him, you can see Mr. Crowley walk from the Underworld all the way to Fort Constantine. Several things to note here;

  • When following him, do not go past him when switching between instances. If you do so, he disappears. But if you enter an instance right after he does, he'll appear next to you and you can keep following him.
  • Crowley takes a rather LONG and circuitous route, basically following minor roads. Periodically he'll break away from the roads and then do a U-Turn coming right back to the same road he left. This should be noted for players intending to keep a distance.
  • While following Crowley out of Underworld, Crowley may "disappear" directly outside of Underworld Concourse although you can still see his marker on the compass. He does not move so the player has no chance of getting the keys back meaning that you will not be able to get the armor. (Confirmed Xbox 360)

His path is approximately as follows:

  • Into the Museum Station from Museum of History
  • Out of Anacostia Crossing
  • South to Rivet City Outskirts
  • Northwest to Jefferson Memorial
  • Across the Potomac River
  • North to the Citadel
  • Then West towards the Nuka-Cola Factory
  • And just past Andale
  • North to Fairfax Ruins
  • North by NorthWest to Jury Street Metro Station (It takes him approximately 13 game hours to reach this location from Underworld)
  • West through the radpools on the southern board of Fort Bannister, engaging those Merc's on patrol
  • North past Jalbert Brothers Waste Disposal, Everglow National Campground, and Rockbreaker's Last Gas, just short of Five Axles Rest Stop
  • East past MDPL Mass Relay Station and through more radpools which compose the partially dried Potomac (possibly wading through them)
  • After reaching the nearest road while going eastbound from the Mass Relay station, he follows it northbound, just past Roosevelt Academy
  • West by Northwest to Faded Pomp Estates
  • Here he travels North by Northeast through the estates and up a bush ridden dirt path just outside Relay Tower KX-B8-11 and onto the next adjacent road
  • From here he travels along this road North all the way to Fort Constantine
  • Just as he leaves the road to head to the Fort, he goes hostile, attacking the player character if they get close, extreme distancing should be used in this situation, and it can be easy to lose track of him at night. What with the explosions from the Base's Sentries going off. If he actually assaults you any Brotherhood Outcasts in the Fort will attack him- at least if you're allied with them from scavving enough Tech.
  • He quickly ducks into the CO Quarters back door against the rock face, on the immediate left inside the base, and proceeds to travel underground to the T-51b Power Armor Suit. (The entire trip takes approximately 23 game hours for Crowley who runs 90% as fast as a character with full agility. If for some reason you desired to actually beat him to it in a foot race, you'd win by hours.)
  • When Crowley enters the bomb storage door, it remains key locked, so you cannot continue along with him. If you wait for 3 hours in game and a few additional seconds Crowley will walk out of the same door, in his armor, no longer hostile to you. All doors will still be key locked if you desire to go inside after killing him.
  • If tracking Crowley, he may have more than standard wasteland conflicts to deal with. In one case he nearly was obliterated by a car that was damaged in one of his fights with a band of raiders encamped over a highway running through the Western D.C. Ruins. These highway areas are prime targets for an explosive demise. For players looking for a taste of role-play, this type of unique but understandable "accidental death" can provide a key-loaded Crowley Corpse, with all the Underworld residents none-the-wiser.

Moved from Notes

These two are observations on the generic combat A.I. It doesn't seem to me to be specific to Crowley.--Gothemasticator 21:23, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

  • Crowley isn't an intelligent fighter as you can tell from his stats. His health and damage are good, but in one case he spent a good 3 or 4 seconds reloading his gun in the middle of the road while a Yao Guai on 'Very Easy' mauled off 75% of his HP. He does, however, have some mechanism of healing. Just after his unfortunate encounter with the Yao Guai, he regained his health to 40% after dispatching a Dog. His corpse has a supply of Stimpacks so this is probably his source of health regeneration, suggesting he may heal with around 15-20% Health remaining.
  • Other times, Crowley will begin fleeing when he's nearly been killed in a fight. If you clear the field of battle for him, he'll continue fleeing down his path toward the Fort.

Moved from article: Fun tips for a dead Crowley

These are fun tips but are essentially personal gameplay stories.--Gothemasticator 21:36, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

  • The Giant Bus on the road just outside Fort Constantine can be used as a tool in Mister Crowley's destruction for those who like to add a little slice of "irony pie" to their quest. After his long daunting trek and his recovery of the much-sought-after armor, his demise came at the hands of a rickety, unstable, nuclear powered bus. While this method gives no Karmic penalty and no hostility borne in Underworld, his body can be tough to locate after the blast. Try to remember where he was standing when it went off and apply physics from there. (In one instance the bus was already on fire, but did not explode until shot at repeatedly.) It's also possible that if for some ungodly reason Crowley didn't sustain any damage- that combined with the armor could stop a vehicle detonation from killing him if he's too far away from the blast. In this case, just use more than one. :)
  • If you gave Mr. Crowley all three keys an easy and efficient way to kill him without getting the hostility of the Underworld is to wait for him to be out of anyone's view. Then simply apply a stealth boy and reverse pickpocket an explosive into Mr. Crowley's pocket. He will explode giving you good Karma and all three of the keys. You can return to the Underworld immediately after and it appears no one even cared.
  • By far and away the easiest method to kill him without any hassle is to just give him the keys, wait in the Museum of History's lobby (Usually empty) with a decent, accurate firearm (I used the Sniper Rifle he gives you) and (If you want to be certain) a Stealthboy. Gun him down (In the head, for preference), loot the corpse, go get the reward from Tenpenny (If you sold Crowley out) and go claim your prize.
  • No need to make things so difficult. Give Crowley the keys, let him leave Underworld, run along side him for a little bit until there is nobody else around, then shoot him in the back. If you don't kill him in one shot, no big deal, he's not too tough. Killing him does not result in Karma loss and after you loot his corpse, nobody in Underworld seems to even know he's gone and nobody goes hostile. Take the keys to Fort Constantine and get yourself some armor!
  • Another way to receive the T-51b power armor is to just leave Crowley alone and return to Underworld after a few days. Crowley will be there wearing the armor in Carol's Place. Kill Crowley in any way and take his stuff, then return to Underworld after a few days. All hostility should be gone.


I completed the quest and gave him the keys. Due to the fact that I already had the T-51b armor in my possession thanks to Operation Anchorage, I had no desire to follow him. With time, however, I realized the great deal of tech that lies in Fort Constantine would yield a lot of caps. I decided to wait for him to return, which would give me a chance to pickpocket the keys back. Several game months later, and Crowley has still not returned to Underworld. In the event that he has died out in the wastes (which is the most likely occurrence), would I be able to find his corpse if I were to retrace his steps, or would his body have already disappeared? Playing on Xbox 360, so no chance of using console commands.--MUFB 20:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

If you have broken steel installed, he disappears. I don't think it's fixed yet.--Kingclyde 20:11, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that could expain it. -.- Thanks for pointing that out. I had been going crazy traversing the wasteland looking for this guy.--MUFB 20:14, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

This also happened to me. I went to Fort Constantine to find the fool, and he was inside the very hard locked Bomb Storage building to the north, just stood there like a lemon! Anyway, I made a save to investigate what I could do: On pick pocketing he had the helmet on him, and the 3 keys, but not the armor. He was still wearing his suit as normal. I cleared the room and talked to him, then he ran off. I followed him and he began to run off South, I guess back to eventually Underworld. He got killed by robots, and I looted the keys and helmet to go back and clean out the Fort. Weird bug, but worked out fine for me in the end!

Thank you for pointing that out. I went into the Bomb Storage and there he was same as you described. He ran out and a Deathclaw got him. I had been looking for him forever including trying to retrace his path. 19:11, August 29, 2010 (UTC)Robert_M

After the quest i finished the as game normal. i remembered there was crowley i looked in underworld and he wasnt there i looked for him in fort constantin and he wasnt there. the armor he has is the only power armor i need because i took every single one to find so if someone knows what the hell i af to do tell me and i wont use my tesla cannon against you

i finnished the quest " Gotta Shoot them in the head " I gave him all the tree keys. i killed Alistair i donno why i did that.. I thought he will stay a few hours in underworld. so i rented a bed. slept for 5 hours and woke up. Wel ques what Crowley was gone :O !! I went to the Fort Constantine twice in the bunker and 4 times in the Bomb Storage !! I just could find him. then i went back to Underworld to take a look at Carols Place, maby he was there ? NO. So i fast traveld back to Fort Constantine i looked at the Bunker Basement and once again he wasn't there. I have a Add-on Point Lookout and i play on Xbox360 I'm really desprate for the Armor its so shin Fort Constantine's Bomb Storage section 3:20, May 4,2011 (UTC) JuiceGlue

unverified bugs

go here. Thanks

  • After completing You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head and Crowley is on his way to Fort Constantine, he may get stuck right outside the entrance to Underworld, in the wall to the left. (unconfirmed)

--Kingclyde 08:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Upon completing You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head I went straight to Fort Constantine to wait on him and get the armour after about a week or so I got bored and returned to Underworld. I found him sitting exactly where I left him so I got annoyed and killed him when I looted his corpse I found the helmet to the armour and all the keys on his corpse and a quick trip to the fort got me the rest of the armour.Vladras Dracule 20:27, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the right place to post but here it goes, anyway. If an adminstrator can contact me via e-mail, much would be appreciated. My address is (blanked for your safety, every two-bit internet hacker has seen or played F3. -Nitty Tok.) Not sure how things are run on a Wiki, but I'd at least like to contribute too. Upon completing You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head, if you've opened all locked doors with the special keys, gave the keys to Crowley, and acquired the T-51b Power Armor, it is possible that Crowley may end up in My Megaton House. At the risk of him taking my stuff, I resorted to killing him, which did not result in karma gain/loss, or any hostility from Megaton Settlers; though hostility from Underworld Residents may be possible. --KarmaDog214 4:55, January 25, 2010 (EST)

That bug is already listed on the You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head page. It's not a bug with Crowley, it's a bug with the quest. In fact, it's probably not even a bug. Nitty Tok. 22:16, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Mister Crowley could be a reference to the Osbournes...

Well, I just had a streamline of thought, that Ozzy Osbourne had a song called Mr. Crowley, and that Mister Crowley could be named after that song, but sadly I cannot edit the post because the post is 'locked'.

cya people

Austin9999 15:00, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

We locked it to stop people from putting that in, and it seems it worked. Spoon Leave me a freakin' message 15:18, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Don't Reinsert Ozzy Reference. Read Below

I pared down the trivia entry regarding Aleister Crowley and Ozzy's song about him. Sure, Allistair Tenpenny + Mr. Crowley = Aleister Crowley. However, the song is about Aleister Crowley, not about the ghoul character. The song predates the game.--Gothemasticator 08:54, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you know it but lets see... almost all trivia predates the game if it was all trivia about stuff in the game it would be retarded surely you are old enough to know that if you are old enough to play the game.Big Nig 08:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I also think that any parallels between the song and the FO3 character are most likely coincidental, stemming from both being references to the same real-world person. Ausir(talk) 16:48, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps this has been discussed elsewhere, but what basis do you have for the assumption that there is no reference to the song. A cursory investigation seems to indicate that the most common use of "Mister" before Crowley is in the song. - 18:45, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
Here's some reasoning on my part:
  • Since, together with Allistair Tenpenny, Crowley's name constitutes a reference to Aleister Crowley, I see no reason to include a second reference to a song which is also referencing the same person. To rephrase, when parallel references exist, generally pick the original one and don't double up.
  • Aside from one irrationally behaving registered user, every edit reinserting the Ozzy trivia has been an unregistered user whose contributions include only the Ozzy entry.
  • Finally, the name itself is the only possible connection to the song. There is no clever quoting of snippets of the lyrics or anything else of the kind which would lead me to believe that it is the song and not the occultist that is being referenced.--Gothemasticator 19:26, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
Please consider my responses:
  • I understand with that stance and I generally agree with it, but I think that in this case there may be substantial reason to consider a connection with the song itself. The character in the game is known exclusively as "Mister Crowley" with no first name, and the most prominent place that Crowley was referred to as "Mister Crowley" was the song.
  • I don't understand why you judge the merit of an addition by who the editor is, what their contributions are, and whether they are registered or not. Shouldn't the edit be judged by its merit itself? If the information added by a given edit is true (not in this case specifically, speaking generally), shouldn't an edit be retained, even if the contributor is unregistered or has no other edits?
  • I also don't understand what you mean when you ask for snippets of lyrics, etc. Wasn't that the whole reason that you removed the fact as was originally written (because "the song is about Aleister Crowley, not the ghoul character")? (Note that I agree the tenuous lyrical analysis that you removed on July 15 should not be included in the article.) - 19:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for being civil about this! Here's my input:
  • A corresponding of names does not in itself constitute a reference. For instance, there was for a while a trivia entry on the Lucas Simms page claiming that he could be a reference to Walker, Texas Ranger, because there was once a little boy on the show who had the same name. Without any corresponding evidence, a name-only reference isn't enough to go on. The Allistair Tenpenny/Mr. Crowley name combination is a little something else to go on.
  • The thing with the anonymous editors is that there was never any discussion or reasoning, just a stubborn reinserting. I and others had put forward reasons (which you found above), but they were not addressed. And the anonymous users did not stick around to discuss. So, yes, an edit gets judged on its own merits, but without two sides to discuss, the anonymous transient contributor loses.
  • I'm not asking to be supplied with snippets of lyrics. I'm suggesting that there is no secondary evidence to connect Mr. Crowley to the song. I'm suggesting that if, for instance, his dialogue contained lines which were cleverly used snippets of lyrics from the song, that would be the kind of secondary evidence that would be convincing. Other corroborations would be welcome, too. That was just an example.
To sum up, if the name is the only connection, then I think the article should stick with the occultist reference and leave the song reference out.--Gothemasticator 20:02, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
Well, I was basing it more on the fact not on just the name, but on the fact that he's specifically called by the same name that is used in the song, i.e. only Mister Crowley with no first name. I realize that it can be argued that most ghoul characters only have one name, but it seems that important or quest-involved ghouls do tend to have two names, like Roy Phillips. My point is basically that if they had intended to reference Crowley the person and not the song exclusively, they could have called him, I don't know, "Jonathan Crowley" and still had the "Tenpenny's first name + Crowley's last name = Aleister Crowley" make sense.
I do have one separate and honest question, though. How is the name pronounced in the game? I can't remember offhand myself, but I understand that Osborne pronounced it differently in the song than Aleister Crowley would normally have pronounced it. That information may help to point definitively to one source or the other. - 20:11, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
I agree that there is very little to go on regarding this reference. However, the evidence that it points to the song remains only the name with no corroborative evidence. The evidence that it points to Aleister Crowley the person is the combination of two character names, which characters are connected closely to each other by the plot of the quest. As long as that is the case, we should go with the reference that has the evidence, and leave out the song reference, since it remains supposition.--Gothemasticator 20:28, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, that's why I was asking about the pronunciation, as "corroborative evidence" - 20:35, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

If you listen to the lyrics in the song, then there is one verse that made me think that Crowley could be referenced to Ozzy's song.
1. "Mister Crowley, did you talk to the dead?" Mister Crowley lives in Underworld and mentions that Tenpenny thinks they're zombies. Zombie = dead. He's been asking other people/ghouls around Underworld to do this for him. Talking. I say he's an Ozzy reference. Jackass2009 22:01, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

That reasoning would only make sense if you were trying to prove that the song is a reference to the game (which is, of course, impossible, given the forward-only nature of time). The in-game reference is to Aleister Crowley, whom the song also makes reference to. Parallel references - not covered here in The Vault.--Gothemasticator 23:09, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

My two cents on the Allistair Tenpenny + Crowler = Aleister Crowley connection is if that connection was intended to be made, Allistair's name would be spelled "Aleister". As far as the ghoul being a reference to this song, while I do always think of Ozzy when I see him(Seeing as the only other Mister Crowley I'd ever heard of was that song), I didn't see a real connection to the song. TestECull 16:01, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I just removed an Ozzy reference. TestECull 17:19, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

hey there nerds, do you think maybe it is a referance to the real Aleister Crowley and not the song. He is in the underworld. Dumbasses

So we're nerds, something you call someone who is very smart as an insult and at the same time we are also dumbasses, the polar opposite, great job there at failing. - RASICTalk 09:33, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Quest name trivia

'The quest title "You Gotta Shoot 'Em in the Head" refers to the rule in zombie fiction that the only way to dispatch a zombie is to destroy the brain.' is it all together neccisary to mention this? i mean, crowly TELLS you about the zombie thing, yes its a reference but the reason he wants you to shoot them in the head is because of this, its a reference to another in-game reference to real life storys, is this neccisary? also shouldn' this be on the quest page, not the character page?Katikar 16:27, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is a needed reference. The behind the scenes section is a background section. Crowley doesn't go into detail about which movie started etc. Plus please learn to use proper grammar and spelling. Thanks. --Kingclyde 12:13, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


I need help finding Crowly i said i didnt kill alastair tenpenny he ran away and went out of the Undderworld and in the the entrance of the musem and it says hes in the statue or behind the statue over the door acording to nmy Pipboy 3000's local map and the quest marker if you know how to fix this glitch please edit the text with the answer of send me a xbox 360 text message my gamertag is RAPTOR118 88

Use some punctuation dude. -ZealotOtter

Crowley page name

Why is it just Crowley instead of Mister Crowley? Trying to get to this page I typed in Mister Crowley and was confused when only Mister Crowley's Hit List came up. Is there a specific reason, or is this just some unchanged thing from whoever started the page first? Miumaru 21:07, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Because Crowley is his name, and Mister is his title. Others, like Scribe Rothchild or Elder Lyons, also use the full name in place of a title. Mister Crowley should redirect here... Nitty Tok. 21:09, April 14, 2010 (UTC)


Why not just put a filter onto this article to block out anything to do with the osbournes?Tezzla Cannon 15:23, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps we can put a big warning notice in the "Behind the Scenes" section stating that Ozzy references are not to be posted here? TestECull 13:08, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

There is one of those on the article, but obviously people see it but don't do what it says.Tezzla Cannon 13:10, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

New info on the Ozzy reference

I've changed it. The Game Guide refers to the song's lyrics ("Oh Mr Crowley, what went down in your head?") several times. Nitty Tok. 00:55, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
Of course the guide refers to the song. Most people would not know who Crowley is named after if they did not use a reference that the little ones might know. All of us here have come to the conclusion a long time again, (you included Nitty) that it makes a double reference. I have restored it to the original state. --Kingclyde 01:03, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
I've never seen the real Crowley ever refered to as "Mr." or "Mister". If an official piece of media is referencing the song, I think it should stay. I'm sick of removing the reference and banning people for it; there's more in common with the song than with the real Crowley. Nitty Tok. 01:06, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
The song is describing to real Crowley. I don't always refer to myself as Mr Johnny, but others do. If you tire of removing the reference, let someone else do it. As for banning, that is for repeated additions of it. --Kingclyde 01:09, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
The song is describing the real Crowley. The only connection to Crowley is Allistair, while it could also be said that Allistair is also referencing the song. The "Mister" is exclusive to the song, and the Game Guide refers to the song. I can see why people get banned for adding Watchmen to the USS Ozymandias, I can't see why people get banned for this. Nitty Tok. 01:13, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
To that end, we do list interesting trivia bits from official game guides; see Joanne Lynette. It's what Goth wanted from the above discussion; secondary evidence. Nitty Tok. 01:46, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with what Nitty has written in the article. It's factual. How can I object?

For the record, though, we have not been banning people for adding the Ozzy reference. When all this started, there was one user who not only kept adding the reference, but also harrassed and insulted editors and wrote long insane-sounding rants. In addition, he posted the same rants, etc., on wikipedia and forums and blogs. After he was perma-banned from here, it was clear that he returned over and over again using different IP addresses to vandalize and harrass. All that is behind us now, and I have not blocked anyone, even anonymous editors, for adding the reference. We have made them aware of the possibility of being blocked for continuing to add it. That's as far as I remember it getting for some many months now.

I would be quite happy to stick to what Nitty has added and put this whole thing to rest.--Gothemasticator 05:06, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

I've actually been following the procedure for all this time and banning people for it, and I felt really bad about it. Thanks, Goth.
Now, onto Yogi/Yao Guai. ;) Nitty Tok. 13:40, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
Woot! My edit saying he might be named after Mr. Crowley was correct! - ThePlatypus 12:54, June 30, 2010 (UTC)


Can it be presumed that Crowley tunneled out of Fort Constantine? Or picked the lock? Post plausible theories! Vault-BA 00:10, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Please start a forum thread rather than posting those theories here. :) Kris (talk) 01:25, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Time of Crowley's ghoulification

Accodring to the Fallout 3 Official Game Guide, Crowley was ghoulified "10 years ago" ( = 2267 ), but the in-game dialogue tells that he was already a ghoul at 2257. Is the game's dialogue considered correct and canonical or...? Kreivi Wolter 20:05, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

The game takes precedence over the guide; the guide has several errors in it, as it was probably based on an earlier version of the game. RolandVH 18:08, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Tag Skills

What are his tag skills and hit points? Last time I checked, he had more health and larger damage output than most other human/ghoul NPC's, and wiped out a small group of raiders (3-4) by himself a few minutes after leaving underworld. He's still easy to kill though.

Make Crowley Un-Hostile?

I told Crowley that I was keeping the keys, and he got all pissy and became hostile. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, except my game is glitching, and I can't alternatively complete the quest by accepting Tennpenny's offer to kill Crowley. So, is there any way where I can make Crowley not hostile again? I waited the three in game days, and all the other residents of Underworld forgave me, but Crowley is still pissed, and he keeps trying to kill me, and making everyone hostile too. And, I really don't want to have to kill him. So, is there a way that I can make him not hostile again so I can complete this quest?