Talk: Fallout: New Vegas combat

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modifiers?

I've been trying to do some damage calculations, and although the article says damage modifiers are applied after the DT is subtracted by the damage, but does that mean any DT modifier is applied before that step? also, where are the "difficulty modifiers", and shouldn't there be modifiers for other parts of the body than just the head? --MoronicCinamun 23:16, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Consumables

There are 3 Consumables that affect damage. They are Psycho, Yao guai meat, and Weapon binding ritual. When are these figured into the equation? Also, how is the fourth rank of the Camarader-E perk figured in? As a Perk, it would be in the Perk portion of the damage formula, but it provides a fixed bonus instead of a proportional bonus, which completely screws with the simplicity of the formula. Swk3000 21:40, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well, part of my question has been answered: the formula now shows where Chems are factored in. However, the question about the Weapon Binding Ritual and the Camarader-E perk still stands, as these provide a fixed bonus to their respective weapon types, not a percentage bonus. Something tells me that taking a Weapon Binding Ritual doesn't multiply Melee and Unarmed damage by 10, but you can't easily convert the extra 10 damage to a percentage to use it in the formula as posted. The same thing applies to the Camarader-E perk. Has any testing been done that looks at these two items specifically? Swk3000 (talk) 18:02, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

Testing

Doing damage tests right now. Boone is a test subject. My CHA is 7, which gives 35% increase to his DT. Difficulty: Very Hard. Perks: Better Criticals, Lord Death, Living Anatomy, Shotgun Surgeon. Gun skill: 100.

Ranged

Hunting rifle

(standard rounds) sneak attack critical head shot. While subject wears no armor I get matching results:

${\frac {(52+52*1.5)*2*2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=275.73$

Actual: 275

When subject wears armor (NCR Ranger combat armor set: 24 DT) the actual damage is finally matches to the calculated:

${\frac {(52+52*1.5-24*1.35)*2*2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=207.0096$

Actual: 206

Hunting shotgun

buckshot sneak attack critical head shot no armor:

${\frac {(10+10*1.5)*7*2*2*1.2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=445.41$

Actual: 445

buckshot sneak attack critical head shot on NCR Ranger combat armor:

${\frac {(10+10*1.5-(24*1.35-10))*7*2*2*1.2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=46.32264$

Actual: 70

buckshot head shot on NCR Ranger combat armor:

${\frac {max(0.2*10,10-(24*1.35-10))*7*2*1.2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=17.8164$

Actual: 14

slug sneak attack critical no armor head shot:

${\frac {(70+10*1.5)*2*2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=180.285$

Actual: 180

slug sneak attack critical head shot on NCR Ranger combat armor:

${\frac {(70+10*1.5-(24*1.35-10))*2*2*1.01*1.05}{2}}=132.7746$

Actual: 131

C-4 plastic explosive

with 36 skill, no armor:

$DAM_{skill=36}=250*({\frac {50+36*0.5}{100}})=170$

${\frac {170*1.01*1.05}{2}}=90.1425$

Actual: 90

On NCR Ranger combat armor set:

${\frac {(170-24*1.35)*1.01*1.05}{2}}=72.9624$

Actual: 73

--Slider2k 21:45, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

As far as I've ferreted it out, the complete damage calc is [[User:The Gunny/sandbox#Full damage formula|here]]. I haven't tested for every single game scenario, mostly a few unarmed/melee scenarios left to check, but for the most part, this is correct. The Gunny 19:42, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, looking at your formula. Have questions. I thought each projectile damage is reduced by DR/DT separately. What is AOE Damage, Object Effect Damage and Aid Damage Multiplier? Slider2k 22:49, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I have problems in calculation only when armor is involved. Slider2k 23:44, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

It may suggest that armor on NPC in FONV has a slight DR component. Yet buckshot damage calculation on an armored subject with shotgun surgeon perk is still completely off. Slider2k 18:51, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

Slider, sorry I haven't kept up with this, been a bit busy. I would suggest some of your numbers may be off because of your target. I think you said you're using Boone. There may be DR scripts with him, I don't recall. If you're on PC, There's a great mod on nexus that Urtho made for me (just a lengthening of the existing testjoshweapons cell) that I use for testing. I can point you to the dl if you want to use that. It's a much better environment for testing. Also, catch me in chat if you want me to e-mail my damage calculator to you. I'm in the middle of updating it, though, so I'm not sure if it's fully functional (I might have an older copy around someplace). The Gunny 00:21, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

You're right! Numbers were off because of the target! I completely forgot about Companion Nerve (thanks to Living Anatomy not accounting that when showing DT). I've edited corrections in. Yet buckshot on the armor is still somewhat off. Slider2k 03:14, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Unarmed

Love and Hate

Unarmed Skill: 23 (damage bonus: 1.65)

VATS/power attack:

Game: 33

Calculation: (30*2 + 1.65) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 32.6899125

VATS/power attack critical:

Game: 57

Calculation: (30*2 + 1.65 + 30*1.5) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 56.5511625

VATS/power attack (DT 32.4):

Game: 15

Calculation: (30*2 + 1.65 - 32.4) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 15.5098125

VATS/power attack critical (DT 32.4):

Game: 40

Calculation: (30*2 + 1.65 + 30*1.5 - 32.4) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 39.3710625

Sneak VATS/power attack critical:

Game: 203

Calculation: (30 + 1.65 + 30*1.5) *5 *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 203.2183125

Sneak VATS/power attack critical (armor 32.4):

Game: 118

Calculation: (30 + 1.65 + 30*1.5 - 32.4) *5 *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 117,3178125

Also tested Stomp/Uppercut:
Unarmed Skill: 56 (damage bonus: 3.3)

Stomp:

Game: 67

Calculation: (30*2 + 3.3) *2 *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 67.12965

Uppercut:

Game: 39

Calculation: (30*2 + 3.3) *1.15 *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 38.59954875

Sneak Uppercut:

Game: 220

((30 + 3.3)*1.15 + 30*1.5) *5 *1.01*1.05 /2 = 220.83586875

Melee

Bumper sword

Melee: 25 (skill mult: 0.625). Strength: 8 (bonus damage: 4)

VATS/Power attack:

Game: 23

Calculation: (32*0.625*2 + 4) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 23.331

VATS/Power attack critical:

Game: 49

Calculation: (32*0.625*2 + 4 + 32*1.5) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 48.783

VATS/Power attack (DT 32.4):

Game: 6

Calculation: (32*0.625*2 + 4 - 32.4) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 6.1509

VATS/Power attack critical (DT 32.4):

Game: 31

Calculation: (32*0.625*2 + 4 + 32*1.5 - 32.4) *1.01 *1.05 /2 = 31.6029

Super sledge

Melee: 53 (skill mult: 0.765); Strength: 8 (bonus damage: 4); Lord Death(2)

Mauler (0.5x) VATS Sneak Attack (DT 28.8):

Game: 140

((70*0.765 + 4)*0.5 + 35*1.5 - 28.8) *5 *1.02 *1.05 /2 = 140.5018125

--Slider2k 00:37, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Accuracy

looking on wiki and dont see page asociated whit accuracy, not mentioned here or in other pages. We need page that have basic formulations. Ther need to be made clear description of accuracy in and outside of V.A.T.S. Starting whit limbs condition, weapon Sway, influance of croching and using Iron Sights (& alignment), weapon spread, Traits and Perks, chems. Is realy incredible you cant finde some basic info in wiki or even track them in multiple pages considering accuracy is most basic important thing you can posible have question abouth wen planing strategy. nEVER_BoRN

this formula is not correct

First, Dam needs to be calculated, where:

$Dam=Dmg \times Skill \times Cond \times Power + Bonus$

• Dmg = Unmodified, base weapon damage, as seen on individual weapon pages.
• Skill = A weapon skill modifier ranging from .5 to 1.
• Cond = A weapon condition modifier, ranging from .5 to 1.
• Power = For any Melee/Unarmed power attack or any Melee/Unarmed non-sneak V.A.T.S. attack this is set to 2, otherwise 1.
• Bonus = The player's strength bonus (if using melee), unarmed bonus (if using unarmed), or 0.

Second, Melee/Unarmed special attack multiplier, critical damage (if a critical roll succeeded) and armor reduction are added in, where:

$Dam_{adjusted1}=(TP\times Dam\times Special+CritTP\times CritDmg\times CritPerks)$

$DT_{adjusted}=max(0, DT \times AmmoDT_{mult} - AmmoDT)$

$Dam_{adjusted2}=(Dam_{adjusted1}\times DR-DT_{adjusted})$

$Dam_{adjusted3}=max(Dam_{adjusted1}\times 0.2,Dam_{adjusted2}\times AM\times Perks\times Chems)$

• Special = Melee/Unarmed V.A.T.S. Special Attack multiplier.
• TP = Number of projectiles per weapon discharge (single click of mouse)(actuality for shotgun)
• CritTP = Number of projectiles have crit per weapon discharge (single click of mouse)
• CritDmg = Unmodified critical bonus damage, as seen on individual weapon pages.
• CritPerks = Perks that multiply critical damage (Better Criticals, Stealth Girl, etc.)
• DR = A number ranging from 1 to .15, representing the Damage resistance of the target.
• DT = The Damage Threshold of the target. Note that DT cannot reduce damage (DR modified) below 20%.
• AmmoDT_mult = Ammo DT multiplier (such as the x3 of HP ammo).
• AmmoDT = Ammo DT reduction (such as the 15DT reduction of AP ammo). Note that it cannot reduce DT of the target below 0.
• AM = Ammo type damage multiplier (such as the x1.75 of HP ammo).
• Perks = Damage multipliers from perks such as Lord Death, Bloody Mess, Living Anatomy, etc.
• Chems = Damage multipliers from Chems such as Psycho, Slasher, etc.

Finally, any other multiplicative modifiers are included, such as:

$Final\ damage=Dam_{adjusted3}\times SA\times HS\times DM$

• SA = Sneak Attack multiplier: 2 if ranged, 5 if Melee/Unarmed.
• HS = 2 if a Headshot (only ranged weapons), otherwise 1.
• DM = Difficulty multiplier: 2 on very easy, 1 on normal difficulty, 0.5 on very hard.

ps min 20% not resist with DR, not modifed on Ammo, and dmg_perks, but have mod from crit perks and finally mods(SA, HS, DM).

188.234.250.28 07:45, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Riot shotgun dmg 9.5714 * 7 = 67 crit_dmg 10, crit_mult 1, critchance 1000

DT 0 | DR 0

(67+10*7)*1.2*2*0.5=164.4 in game 164.4

10 meters, not all projectils attack target))

(9.57*4+10*4)*1.2*0.5=46.9713 in game 46.97

DT 0 | DR 10

(9.57*4+10*4)*0.9*1.2*0.5 = 42.27 dont know where error with DR. always ~1-5% on hit. in game 43.1

(9.57*7+70)*0.9*1.2*0.5=73.9798 in game 74.45

((67+70)*0.85)-10*7)*1.2*0.5=31.979 in game 31.96

DT 5, DR 0 + Psycho

max((67+70)*0.2, ((67+10*7)-5*7)*1.2*1.25)*2*0.5=153 153.01

DT 100 | DR 100 | body

max((67+70)*0.2, ((67+10*7)*0.9-100*7)*1.2)*0.5=13.7 13.7

headshot

max((67+70)*0.2, ((67+10*7)*0.9-100*7)*1.2)*2*0.5=27.4 27.4

headshot + Psycho

max((67+70)*0.2, ((67+10*7)*0.9-100*7)*1.2*1.25)*2*0.5=27.4 27.4 Psycho not modifed min dmg, but headshot give +100%

--TDA A (talk) 16:16, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Ammo Type Modifier

I've got a problem with the current formula's handling of the ammo type modifier.

Let's say I'm using A Light Shining in Darkness (Base Dam 33) on a target with 30 DT. Assuming I do not get bonuses from crits and perks etc, if I hit the target with standard .45 ammo, the formula is saying I should be dealing 6.6 damage per round. This is because the damage output could not penetrate the DT and the 6.6 is a result of the 20% bleed through effect.

But now, what happens if I use Hollow Points? Against a target with 30 DT with the same weapon, the ammo adjustments are x1.75 damage but x3 DT. Using the current formula, the final damage is 11.55. If we were to chart out increase in target DT against final damage dealt, we would see that standard rounds hit the 20% bleed through limit when target DT is 27 or above, whereas Hollow Points hit theirs when DT is 9. However, even then, the minimum damage Hollow Points deal out is still somehow higher than standard rounds.

In summary, I think the Ammo Type Multiplier (AM) component of the current formula should not be part of the Final damage calculation. Instead, it should be part of Dam_adjusted2. This would ensure that any contribution AM does is calculated BEFORE we finish calculating the minimum damage i.e. the Max formula in Dam_adjusted2. Either way, the end result should be that the minimum damage a weapon can deal out should be the same regardless of the ammo type. It would just be a question of how high the enemy DT needs to be before this barrier is reached.--101Phase (talk) 12:18, December 18, 2014 (UTC)