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Talk:Fallout 3 SPECIAL

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Changed the initial skill value formula. I had been working on this formula for a while. Luck factors into all skills, and the best multiplier I found was this non-terminating decimal, 4/9, and then rounding the result down. -- 16:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC) (Zwergner)


Page needs descriptions from the game of the seven primary attributes. Also somebody (maybe me) needs to create a skills page specific to fallout 3 where much of the info shown on this page should go, and be linked to from this page.

Main Statistics Cap

So here's a question... What if you had 10 CH and you wore the AntAgonizer's Costume (-1 CH, +1 AG), setting you at 9 (-). You then wear Eulogy Jones' Hat for +1 CH. Is your CH back to 10? What if you wear the hat first? Your CH would thus still be 10 with the hat, and then does it drop when you put on the costume?

In other words, does the game keep track of modifiers separately? I'm assuming they do, but my real question is with the Bobbleheads...

If you have 10 AG and wear Power Armor (-2 AG), you have 8 AG. What if you then found the AG Bobblehead after that? Would it be 9? Are the Bobbleheads permanent +1s, and thus not considered mods, and thus not stored? 17:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

  • This calls for experimentation... Bobbleheads are permanent, so they are calculated first. After that, it seems like it's calculated to the maximum possible. So:
Highest possible = 10
  • Subtract negative bonuses from armor
Lowest possible = 1
  • Add positive bonuses from armor
  • Add bonuses from chems
Highest possible = 10
/Mirar 09:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Carry Weight

A previous author noted that carry weight is not useful "for various reasons" but did not specify any reasons. I have redacted this comment because I have found carry weight to be a factor in several situations, primarily as an issue of convenience. If you feel that this should be changed, please leave reasoning below. --Banz 20:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

  • The reasoning is that you can still move when actually carrying more than you are supposed to, you just move very slow and can't jump, but besides that you can carry as much as you want at any Strength. Personally I'll take the Strength and the ability to move at a decent speed any day.
  • You also cannot fast travel (teleport) while overencumbered.

Maximum build

Lets see if I get these calculations correct...

  • With an Intelligence of 10, you get 20 skill points per level
  • From level 5 you can get 23 skill points with the Educated perk
  • That gives 3*20 (level 2-4) + 16*23 (level 5-20) = 428 extra skill points as maximum

But, we'll want the Intelligence Bobblehead raise.

  • That gives 19 (level 2) + 2*20 (level 2-4) + 16*23 (level 5-20) = 427 extra skill points as maximum
  • With Skill Bobbleheads, you get 10 per skill as well = 130 more points
  • With SPECIAL Bobbleheads, you get to raise all the SPECIAL stats 1 point = 2 points per skill = 26 more points
  • With Intense Training you can raise 10 stats.
  • Skill books: With Comprehension you can raise every skill 2 points per book, or 50 points per skill (there's 25 books of each variant)
SPECIAL orig bobblehead intense training equipment total
Strength 3 1 1 0 5
Perception 5 1 3 1 10
Endurance 3 1 1 0 5
Charisma 3 1 1 0 5
Intelligence 9 1 0 0 10
Agility 5 1 4 0 10
Luck 7 1 0 2 10
total 35 7 10 3 55

Skill SPECIAL Luck Bobblehead Equipment Books Skill points total
Barter Charisma 10 4 10 0 50 26 100
Big Guns Endurance 10 4 10 0 50 26 100
Energy Weapons Perception 20 4 10 0 50 16 100
Explosives Perception 20 4 10 0 50 16 100
Lockpick Perception 20 4 10 0 50 16 100
Medicine Intelligence 20 4 10 0 50 16 100
Melee Weapons Strength 10 4 10 0 50 26 100
Repair Intelligence 20 4 10 0 50 16 100
Science Intelligence 20 4 10 0 50 16 100
Small Guns Agility 20 4 10 10 50 6 100
Sneak Agility 20 4 10 5 50 11 100
Speech Charisma 10 4 10 0 50 26 100
Unarmed Endurance 10 4 10 0 50 26 100
total 210 52 243 1300

That means that you can "max out" already at level 13, theoretically (may or may not glitch when you level because you can no longer add skill points) - that's when you will have gotten the needed 243 skill points, and the 10 Intense Training as well as Comprehension and Educated. (In practice you will get enough xp from just getting all those books that you will be much higher level before you're done, if not level 20.)

/Mirar 10:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


INTELLIGENE is very important unless you have a strategy to read all the skill books. Go to Rivet City as soon as possible and get the INT bobblehead. Also take the Educated and Comprehension perks as soon as possible. This will maximize your skill points. High INT also raises SCIENCE and MEDICINE. CHARISMA is not very important along with BARTER and SPEECH. You can save right before important SPEECH situations and repeat them until you have a success. There are also frequent alternatives to these SPEECH situations with high INT, SCIENCE or MEDICINE. BARTER is not important as long as a player searches most containers and loot; you'll find plenty of caps, ammo and medicine and things to sell such as scrap metal, pre-war books and money and other junk. STRENGTH is not important (unless melee type) because it only give you +10 carry weight. Be smart about your loot and REPAIR frequently. It could be lower since you can almost immediately get the STRENGTH Bobblehead, and complete the Those! quest for two extra points, but 4 is convenient. ENDURANCE is not as important for a more stealthy character and a higher MEDICINE is easier with high INTELLIGENCE. There is always of course the bobblehead and Intense Training. PERCEPTION is important especially towards the end of the game when energy weapons are effective and plentiful. Raising it with Intense Training and the bobblehead is suggested. LUCK is extremely important but there's a lot of ways to raise it. Get the bobblehead as soon as possible. Also get the Luck 8 Ball from completing the Big Trouble in Big Town quest and healing Timebomb. If you go most or all of the game in non-Power armor, then get the Lucky Shades. Getting some Ranger Battle Armor also gets you a +1 LUCK and a high damage resistance. AGILITY is also very important because it will increase both V.A.T.S. and your SMALL GUNS and SNEAK skill. It also lets you move faster which is just convenient for walking across the big map. Keep in mind that Power Armor will usually lower your AGILITY so its recommend to max it out at 10 eventually. A 80-100 SMALL GUNS is recommended before lvl 16 as well as LOCKPICK or SCIENCE. By lvl 20 REPAIR should be atleast 75 and MEDICINE at about the same if you left ENDURANCE low. ENERGY WEAPONS come in handy towards the end of the game so a lvl 60 or much higher is recommended.

I've been playing with a modified version of this build, and yes, you can max nearly everything out, but there are a few things you forgot to mention.

Firstly, when you create your character you get 40 Special points, not 35. You can make an even stronger build like so:

Equipment: Lucky Shades, Shady Hat and T-51b Power Armor: Luck+1, Perception+1, Sneak+5, Damage Resistance + 50% and Radiation Resistance +25

SPECIAL orig Bobblehead intense training equipment total
Strength 8 1 1 0 10
Perception 5 1 2 1 9
Endurance 3 1 1 0 5
Charisma 3 1 2 0 6
Intelligence 9 1 0 0 10
Agility 5 1 4 0 10
Luck 7 1 0 1 9
total 40 7 10 2 59

Then you can max out Perception by taking the Ant Sight perk and Luck with Lucky 8 Ball and You've got the advantage of some thicker armor.

Secondly, There are only 23 Tales of a Junktown Jerky Vendor, so even with comprehension you'll find you're 4 point short. This can easily be remedied by Taking those points out of Speech and picking up Yew's Bear Charm. However, there are more than enough points to cover all the skills. Especially when you factor in the 45 points you get for skill tags when creating your character, and the major boosts you get for maxing out your SPECIAL through Intense Training.

While playing this build, it can become hard to keep track of all the points in your head, The easiest way to remember it is to think of the the minimum level you need to get your skill to before books and bobble heads. With Comprehension the point assignment looks like this:

Skill Bobblehead Equipment Books Starting Stats Base Stat Goal
Barter 10 0 46 12 44
Big Guns 10 0 50 12 40
Energy Weapons 10 0 50 16 40
Explosives 10 0 50 16 40
Lockpick 10 0 50 16 40
Medicine 10 0 50 24 40
Melee Weapons 10 0 50 22 40
Repair 10 0 50 24 40
Science 10 0 50 24 40
Small Guns 10 0 50 16 40
Sneak 10 5 50 16 35
Speech 10 10 50 12 30
Unarmed 10 0 50 12 40

So, if you collect every book and bobble head in the game, you only need to allocate your stats to about 45 to max them all.

The real trick would be legitimately maxing SPECIAL. --Nux Matrix 05:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Maxing stats with the lowest possible INT without reliance on armor

SPECIAL Orig Bobblehead Intense training Other Total
Strength 6 1 2 1 10
Perception 6 1 3 0 10
Endurance 9 1 0 0 10
Charisma 1 1 0 0 2
Intelligence 3 1 0 0 4
Agility 8 1 1 0 10
Luck 7 1 0 1 9
total 40 7 6 2 55
  • ("Other" means Lucky 8-Ball and Ant Might)
  • TAG Medicine, Science, Speech.
  • Get the Intelligence Bobblehead as soon as you leave the vault.
    • Get all other Bobbleheads.
  • Don't read any books until you get Comprehension.
    • Collect and read ALL books
  • Get the listed Intense Training perks whenever you like.
  • Get Cyborg (+10 E.Weapons) and Silent Running (+10 Sneak).
  • Get Yew's Bear Charm.
Heres your skills after doing all of the above:
Skill "Base" level Points Required for Max
Barter 67 33
Big Guns 85 15
Energy Weapons 95 5
Explosives 85 15
Lockpick 85 15
Medicine 88 12
Melee Weapons 85 15
Repair 73 27
Science 88 12
Small Guns 85 15
Sneak 95 5
Speech 94 6
Unarmed 85 15
Total - 195
You'll have 70 leftover skillpoints even after maxing everything, meaning you technically don't even need all the books.

I took into account the INT3 @Level2 and the skills that have less than 25 books. Theoretically, as long as you get Comprehension before reading any book, its possible to max all stats no matter what level INT you have (INT4 is required for Comprehension). Realistically, its a pain in the ass to get all the books, even with the wiki, and considering how easily your game can get screwed up (important merchants/quest NPCs disappearing being the biggest offenders), its not suggested you attempt this. HOWEVER, once the third DLC is released, and the level cap is increased to 30, this will be a lot more viable. The Educated perk also helps even further, and again, once level cap is increased to 30, you'll be getting 30 more skillpoints from it.

I've made changes in my build to reflect some of this, however, I still have some minor discrepancies. I've seen a lot of your data, and I'd like to see you put together a build or a play through guide on maximizing your stats. [[[Fallout_3_character_builds]]] --Nux Matrix 22:33, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Bloodwar's Info

Bloodwars: The Case for Stupidity
Bloodwars: Skill Point Increases

I don't think 10 int is needed, since maxing out skill points at level 13 (vs 20) just means you've wasted a perk and 6 stat points for absolutely no reason (see first link above).

As far as skill point raises, I believe your numbers are off, speech on my build is at least 11 (after equipment (9+ LK, 2 CH)) and only needs to hit 20 (unless you don't want to carry ANY buff gear, but even then, the maximum necessary skill points are 40 (0 for big guns) and stats help cut that down too.

The maximum SPECIAL load out is 64/70 (see notes on this page.)
Bloodwars 14:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

The point of the build isn't to be the most efficient, it's to be the maximum. I have 10 INT, because I want to max out every stat possible. That being said, I would be interested in seeing an efficiency build --Nux Matrix 14:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
but you can have 5 int and still max out all your skills without giving up hit points, and your max build only lists 59 SPECIAL points, not 63 or 64. That said I really wouldn't recommend playing a build with 10 perks spent on intense training, since, while somewhat useful, is a pretty weak perk. Bloodwars 16:21, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Does having a skill over 100 do anything?

If you get all the bobbleheads and skill books, you're left with more skill points than you really need. Now, what I'm wondering is, say I pump all those points into Small Guns. Will that factor into the calculations made for using that skill (if you query the skill it will say, for example, 108, even if it shows up as being 100 in the Pip-Boy).

Does anyone know?

Dcruze 16:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

No, 100 is the cap for all skills, picking up a bobblehead or reading a book after the skill is maxed wastes the points for that item. You cannot have a skill over 100. --Nux Matrix 17:42, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I increased my Small Guns from 112 to 312 in the console, and it didn't do anything at all. Should have tried that before I posted the question. Ah well... Dcruze 19:44, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
"It isn't possible to raise a skill above one hundred points, but the game keeps track of increases past 100 just in case a skill is lowered (by something such as radiation or power armor,) so you may want to raise some skills to (theoretically) 102 or 104." -- PTLeleo 21:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Now, now, let's not forget Unarmed. The damage to skill ratio (whatever it may be) does not cap at 100 with unarmed only. 00:32, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

what happened to this page and the old formula that was on it

Maxing all stats with the "Almost Perfect" Perk.

It is technically possible; by reading all skill books (with the Comprehension perk) and managing skill points, to max out every skill, but the Broken Steel addon now makes it possible to max out the SPECIAL skills too. Since the Almost Perfect perk raises every SPECIAL skill to 9, without changing those at or above that level, one could simply collect all of the SPECIAL bobbleheads after taking the perk. This would mean perfect tens in each category, with the exception of the Energy Weapons bobblehead in Raven Rock, as collection of this bobblehead is unavoidable. This is easily fixed, however, as intense training would simply have to be used to raise this SPECIAL skill to ten before reaching level 30, the Almost Perfect perk and thus the PERFECT CHARACTER.

I reject your reality and substitute it with my own... 00:54, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Also, so long as you get 40 skill in everything (without using the bobbleheads or skill books), you can max your skills. Just save all your skill books until you've got 40 (or 50, depending on if you have the bobblehead) skill, or are level 30.

Highest NPC SPECIAL stats?

Very high and very low SPECIAL stats for NPCs are rare.

Does anyone know or have a list of all the npc characters that have outstandingly high (or maybe even very low) SPECIAL stats? (Fallout 3 & New Vegas). A list would be cool, maybe a good idea?

For example I noticed that

Gloria Van Graff has a 10 in LUCK. Knight Captain Gallows & Legate Lanius have 9 in STRENGTH. Commander Jabsco (Talon Co.) has a 10 in ENDURANCE. Mr. House has a 10 in EDURANCE, PERCEPTION, and LUCK.

Anyone know of any others?