# Talk:Finesse

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## Contents

Does this still benefit if you have 10 luck? In which games?

I wonder too. Mirar 08:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
It does seem not to be capped at 10 luck.-accountless avenger

This is one of the most FUN perks in the game especially for sniping. Combined with Better Criticals this will make you a killing MACHINE.-accountless avenger

It makes sense that this would still work if you already had 10 Luck since you're not increasing Luck, you're increasing an entirely different variable that Luck also affects (that being your critical hit chance). The question I have is when the extra 5% is added to the damage calculation. For example, over on the Weapons Talk page, I've figured out a calc that can show the impact that critical stats (yours and the weapon you use) have on your effective damage per second. The question revolves around each weapon's critical chance multiplier. For example, the Sniper Rifle multiplies your critical hit chance by 5. If you have 5 Luck, your critical hit chance is 5%. if you have Finesse, it's now 10%. But, does the weapon's multiplier get applied to the 10% or the 5%? It can make a huge difference to your effective DPS. Right now I'm assuming it multiplies the 10%, but I'm not sure. Any idea from you folks? Servius 17:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
I think it gets multiplies by the 10%. Anyway, this+better criticals+grim reaper's sprint+sniper rifle=clear the area.Crimmastermind 09:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

What if the character has its Luck stat at Lvl 7...does this "perk" become useless since the percentage of a critical hit of 7 is much greater than the Lvl 5 'equivalent'? Or does it have an increased percentage factor?—RekonDog 05:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

## "Extra"

It says ",equivalent to 5 "extra" points of luck." Which means whatever points of luck you have, you will have an equivalent to 5 "extra" points from what you already have. So if you have 7 points of luck, you get 5 "extra" points of luck added on to that. I don't think it would go over the 10 limit so if you had 7 points of luck, you'd probably only get 3 "extra" points. Also, since it says "in combat". It's possible that the perk only works if you and your enemy are engaged in combat (like their shooting you and you're shooting them). It is possible they could mean that a 5% chance is added on to the chance you already have. Who knows. I would stick to what the writer has written. This is only my opinion. Only because it says "extra". lol --HeadphoneDisaster 06:55, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't be further from the truth. 10 luck + finesse = 15% base critical chance. 68.192.9.90 03:39, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

## Ignore -30%

Is that true "Technically, this is done by adding a +30 DR modifier to all attacks, which is ignored by armor-bypassing criticals. " in FO1&2?

Yes, as you can see here: Critical_Hit most critical hits just plain bypass armor entirely.

## Assigning objective value to the trait

I'd love to see some math showing how this trait affects a character's overall ability to deal damage relative to a character without it. I've played with it before, and it was hard to judge if it was actually helping me. I'm terrible at math but I'm sure someone could figure out a general idea and test it out.ComradeJim270 16:22, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

too many variables to just slap a flat value on it really.

your base luck score, having the trait built to destroy, having the perk better criticals, and what the crit modifier on the weapon you are using all play a role in factoring how much this benefits your character build.

generally speaking, if you have low luck, dont take built to destroy, and use weapons with low crit modifiers then this trait is going to prove to be rather ineffective. i mean going from 1% crit to 6% crit isnt going to be very apparent. yes its theoretically a huge increase, but you still are only going to see a crit one in 20 shots. in real play its going to happen so seldom you will question if its doing anything.

on the other hand, if you have high luck, took built to destroy, and favor weapons with high crit modifiers, then this trait will be very powerful for you. for instance i use a x2 weapon, with 10 luck, and built to destroy. that sets me at 26% to crit with a normal shot. i now take finesse and i jump to 36% to crit with a normal shot. thats pretty huge going from 1 in 4 is a crit to 1 in 3 is a crit, and you should notice a jump in how often you crit almost immediately.

for damage terms if you build your character around wanting to crit as much as possible.

10 luck + finesse + built to destroy = 18% base crit. use a weapon with a x2 modifier you have 36% to crit with a normal shot. vats adds 15% crit chance, youd have over 50% to crit in vats.

taking better criticals perk makes your weapon do an average of 250% the damage of a normal shot.

in essence, you can almost double the damage output of weapons with higher crit modifiers, and more than double it inside vats.

another thing to note is in new vegas they use the damage threshold system which makes crit that much more powerful.

if an enemy has 10 damage threshold and your normal shot hits for 15, you do 5 damage. 15-10=5

taking the same enemy and a crit with better criticals, your base damage is 37, you hit for 27. 37-10=27

so in new vegas if you really want to lay down the damage, crit is your best friend.

Wow... I forgot I even said something here, and now I remember it and have a look, and I have to laugh about all the people telling me about the mechanics of Finesse in a game that wasn't even released until two months after I asked about it and completely failing to notice that I called it a trait and not a perk, and ignoring how ridiculous it would be to expect to do less damage with the perk. I suppose those are easy enough mistakes to make, but I'd expect at least one person to notice at least one of those things! Oh, and not one person said anything about how it works in the games which I must have been referring to unless I had access to New Vegas before anyone was able to actually buy it. All of that's a bit disheartening.

I might just try making two otherwise identical characters and recording the results to figure it out myself. ComradeJim270 04:24, June 29, 2011 (UTC)