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Talk:Li'l Devil (GRA)

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Are we positive it's not a holdout weapon? Because I just snuck it into the tops with Sneak 32 -- 01:16, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Couldn't sneak it into gomorah with 100 sneak, I'm guessing you managed because you convinced Swank to allow weapons in.

I just entered the Gomorrah, have 25 sneak (Have not attempted The Tops [^concerning Swank]) I pressed keep holdout weapons and I get the Li'l Devil and my silenced .22 22:33, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

I just entered the Fort, 32 sneak, choose to keep holdout weapons and I have the Lil' Devil, I also brought it into Gomorrah a little earlier with same stats. -- 23:56, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

What systems are you guys playing on because that could make a difference. Frantruck 17:58, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

You mean platform? I'm on the PC. I have a few mods, but apart from one armor stat change, they are all visual changes. 19:27, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

I was just thinking it could be a bug on one of the platforms as it seems that people are having it perform as a holdout weapon, of course I have not got a chance to test it myself yet. Frantruck 02:19, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Definitely a bug. I checked a couple levels later, with a sneak of 50, and suddenly I couldn't bring it in~to Gomorrah anymore as a hold out weapon. 00:41, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

I was playing on the PS3 when I brought it into Gomorrah and the Fort.-- 02:52, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Can't take it anywhere whatsoever with 100 sneak on PC, unmodded. This is either a difference between platforms and/or a bug. Let's get this figured out before putting anything definite back on the main page, OK? --Mister Twist 21:19, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

It is a regular holdout weapon. It is added to the holdout weapons formlist by script NVDLC05MQ00SCRIPT, which is easily verified by checking that script in the "scripts" section of the GECK with the DLC05 (GRA) .esm loaded.--The Gunny 22:03, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

it sounds like a sneak skill bug judging from your comments, according to the comment 4 paragraphs above once u hit 50 it dosent allow u to carry it in, ive got 96 sneak and i definitely cant get it past security. Brotherhood-overlord-6 23:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be noted that it is bugged? I'm experiencing it as well on PC and I had to make a quick mod to fix this.

Is this really a SIG?

Is there any in-game reference or developer quote that actually specifies that the FONV 12.7mm pistol is a "A Swiss SIG-Sauer 14mm handgun chambered for 12.7mm ammunition"? I understand the similarities to the 14mm pistol, but I can not recall any in-game reference declaring the origin of manufacture of this weapon.--The Gunny 23:58, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I believe it was mentioned by an NPC in Fallout, although I could be mistaken, it's been a very long time since I played the first Fallout game. The Cyan Dragon 16:53, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

The original inventory item description of the 14mm mentioned it as being SIG-Sauer in origin. Buster in Fallout 2 mentioned that imported 14mm ammunition was getting hard to find, so it's logical to assume that a weapon popular in NCR would be rechambered for a more common, still-imported caliber. :v Nitty Tok. 17:09, November 6, 2011 (UTC)
That's my point. Should asumptions make it into articles? Given JE Sawyer's well documented avoidance of naming weapons with anything resembling real world names, should the visual resemblence of this weapon to a weapon in another game be enough to allow it to be inconclusively named the same thing? Same goes for the manufacturer. We can assume it is made by SIG, but since the game (FONV) doesn't clearly state its origin, we could also assume that the Gun Runners manufactured this from extant design documents or by reverse engineering. If Sawyer was loath to either name the weapon "A SIG-Sauer" or clearly declare that it was a "14mm handgun chambered for 12.7mm ammunition" I fail to see any reasonable reasons why we should make these assumptions. This is akin to the many people who wish to name the assault carbine an M-4. I have no problem at all with a mention in the notes section about its resemblance to the 14mm, but I feel there's scant evidence to declare it is of the same origin. Unless there's been some declaration from one of the devs, or someone can find a comcrete reference in-game, it would be my position to move this information to the appropriate section.--The Gunny 18:43, November 6, 2011 (UTC)
This is entirely different from trying to call the Assault Carbine an M4. We have an in game precedence for the 12.7mm Pistol being a Sig. We have evidence that indicates it being a Sig, ergo its a sig. Richie9999 19:30, November 6, 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be contrary, but we have in-game evidence that the 14mm is a SIG, but none that I know of that the FONV 12.7mm is a SIG. I would be happy to examine whatever references you can link me to. Let me give a different example than the M-4. Infinity makes a very nice M1911 style pistol called a Sight Tracker in .40. It looks just like a Colt, but it chambers a different cartridge and is manufactured by a different company. Would you call this weapon a "Colt 1911"? And if you did, would it be correct?--The Gunny 21:24, November 6, 2011 (UTC)