Forum:Community Vote - Saint Pain's Chat Ban

Forums: Index > Wiki proposals and applications > Community Vote - Saint Pain's Chat Ban

As seen in this week's Bureaucratic hearing regarding Saint Pain's permanent chat ban enacted a little over a year ago, opposition has been presented and we will begin converting this process over to a community vote. Please review the prior discussion leading up to this vote before making a decision here.

With two discussions taking place and this incident already scrutinized thoroughly, I will cut to the chase and begin the voting process now:

The Vote

Poll finished on 10:11 pm November 13, 2013 (UTC).

• A consensus must be reached by voting before any action is taken.
• You can vote by placing one of the following lines in the appropriate section:
  • Use # {{yes}} ~~~~ if you support the proposal.
  • Use # {{no}} ~~~~ if you are against the proposal.
  • Use # {{neutral}} ~~~~ if you wish to abstain.
• Please do not edit other user's votes.

Yes

Vote yes if you wish to see Saint Pain's chat ban removed

1. Peace'n Hugs ^Greets
2. Please see my thoughts on the Bureaucratic hearing for my vote rationale. ^{Some Assembly Required!} 22:15, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
3. Agent c (talk) 22:23, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
4. MountHail (talk) 22:24, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
5. --The Ever Ruler (talk) 22:27, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
6. Please see my thoughts on the Bureaucratic hearing for why I'm voting like this. ---bleep196- (talk) 22:31, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
7. ^{"Semper Invictus"} 22:45, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
8. I agree with the rationale provided by Leon and other supporters in the forum. Saint's continued community presence and numerous high-quality images and edits are more than enough to prove that he deserves another chance in chat. ^sectator_apocalypsi 23:09, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
9. Leea (talk)
10. My reasons remain the same as in the previous vote last year.
    Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪}
11. Saint has done great work in the past few months and acknowledges that his behaviour in chat, should his ban be lifted, must be stellar. --Skire (talk) 01:50, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
12. 02:09, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
13. Richie9999 (talk) 02:20, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
14. ^{"Say 'ello to my little friend!"} 20:56, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
15. Pain means no harm, this has been a long time coming. --TwoBearsHigh-Fiving 02:42, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
16. I explained my reason before... THE NUCLEAR KING ^Talk 02:50, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

No

Vote no if you wish to see Saint Pain's chat ban remain

1. As I have said in the forum, I don't think that Pain being a nice guy who means no harm won't stop him this time if it didn't stop him last time. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 01:31, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
2. --Zerginfestor (talk) 02:28, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
3. As per my reasoning of my last vote on the matter. His community presence/contributions doesn't warrant another chance at being able to use the chat ever again. His previous track records shows he isn't capable of being able of using the chat within the rules of it. I do believe people can change, but I see no evidence that he has. ^{Hawk da Barber 2012 - BSHU Graduate} 04:40, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Neutral

I really feel that it is best i stay out of this vote for the moment until i have been a bit more active. ^{"Broadcasting: Retro Radiation King"} 05:03, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

For those who have voted no thus far, I remind you that Saint has been a continuously active member or our community. He participates in community events, is active on the wiki every day, and has contributed numerous high quality images and edits. He has done everything outside of chat that he can. How can we say he hasn't changed if we won't let him prove he can? ^sectator_apocalypsi 04:45, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

And to those who have voted yes thus far, I remind you that Saint already got one extra chance, regularly responded to his previous bans by yelling power abuse, has serious trouble using the English language when he talks so would break rules without even intending to, and has admitted the he has little intention of using chat and instead just wants the badge that proves he's done wrong to go away. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 05:02, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

If he really has no intention of using the chat, doesn't that actually makes him even less likely to stir up trouble there?
Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪} 10:55, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. If he has no intention of using chat why would we need to unban him from chat? JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 20:11, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

My reasons for wishing to have the option to rejoin chat is mostly so I can be more available to help our members with their issues and to more readily interact with community concerns or best of all "celebrate" the achievements of my friends.

I really am just here to help. If you can't trust me. Trust the ones who recanted their words against me. If a mod's word can ban on an impulse, should it not also carry the weight after more careful consideration to absolve ?

SaintPain→ Here to help." 02:04, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Mods do not "ban on impulse". And you seem to think I have not had "careful consideration" too, just because I voted "no" doesn't mean I didn't think about it first.JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 02:08, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Even if he has stated his plans on not coming into chat on a regular basis, he has still made it pretty clear that he does wish to come into chat every now and again. So this is a bit of a null point. ^{Some Assembly Required!} 20:14, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

To those who have voted no, I do have to ask what sort of behaviour would you expect to see before removing a perma ban? Agent c (talk) 11:35, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

To me this isn't about the short of behaviour we would or wouldn't expect. It;s the fact that Pain, even though he never intended to break the rules, regularly did because it's in his nature and I don't think his nature is going to have changed significantly in this time. He isn't a child coming of age, he's a fully grown man who should have already known better. His inability to communicate in clear English is a issue no matter how nice of a guy he is. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 20:14, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding his English, Saint Pain has indeed gotten much better and this is proven through his regular editing. A year ago, we were regularly having to follow Saint's edits because of his grammar. As of about 6 months ago, we are no longer having to follow him around, and even his speech in our blogs and forums have gotten much more comprehensible. ^{Some Assembly Required!} 20:17, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

I find the clear English argument confusing in like of the amount of Dolan like speak already present and resistance to the enforcement thereof. But not really answered my question. Is there any circumstance where you think you could vote to lift any permaban? If the answer is no, then I would have to suggest that anyone who couldn't shouldn't participate as they are unwilling or unable to apply our policies. Agent c (talk) 20:30, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Excessive Dolan is banned, not Dolan itself. If people use dolan so much that everything they say is near impossible to understand then we would act accordingly. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 00:55, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

I don't really know what this "Dolan" is.. I think it is some kind of slang like the LOL cats or some such..

• I don't make an effort to be odd. I am just me.

• Sure some of the things I say are clearly role playing but even then they are just said in an honest attempt to share some fun.

If anyone could please tell me when or where I truly offended any member I would be grateful for the opportunity to try and make amends.

I do not go out of my way to be cryptic.. I have a poetic nature. I never said I was a great poet, but it is part of who I am and how I speak. If you can please tell me who I have harmed with my be'n me I will try to make it right.

SaintPain→ Here to help." 01:37, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

That is my point, Pain, you don't intend to be like that. However, that places the actions that end up getting you banned (such as spamming) are part of your nature and, arguably, outside of your control but that doesn't make them any less bannable. Speaking non English languages (such as german) is also banned in chat, for example, and if a non-English speaking german comes in to chat and starts speaking German we would, eventually, have to kick (or possibly ban them) for a breach of the rules. This isn't their fault, but it still heavily disrupts chat and breaks the rules all the same. Good intentions is one thing, you need the ability to follow them too. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 01:59, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

I was never banned for speaking non English or for making any verbal assault on any member or group. What part of "My nature" do you find so offensive? The mods who banned me recanted their accusations and expressed regret. Why do you still wish to fight against their will ? To the best of my recollection Jasper you never had a cause to ban me.

Can't you please just trust that if the one's who accused me can let it go then perhaps we could respect their wish? I still never been told who it is I might have offended.

SaintPain→ Here to help." 02:18, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

You're right, I never have had to ban you. I fail to see why that matters. You say that you were ever banned for making any verbal assault on any member or group but "Your offenses included personal attacks to me"-Victor JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 02:24, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

That old log is soo long.. Are you say'n I slandered you Victor or booth.. Either way I don't recall it. Could you please quote it for me?.. Again if I ever caused harm I am more than willing to apologize.. I just really do not remember spamming.

SaintPain→ Here to help."

Pain, I never said you've insulted or offended ME. That is an assumption you came up with yourself and one which has no basis. I am not voting no out of some petty vendetta, so please get that out of your head. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 02:39, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

@ Jasper ~ Your link said "Quote" Your offenses included personal attacks to me "End quote" Please just tell me who you think I offended? If it was Victor it has been more than noted that Victor regretted that ban & wished he could take it back.

SaintPain→ Here to help." 02:49, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

It was victor that said that quote, hence why I

A) quoted it

B) Credited Victor for the quote

C) linked to where victor had said it

He may have taken back what he said, but it still counts as a time where you were banned for personally attacking someone. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?" 02:50, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Jasper.. Dude there was no attack.. Even Victor admitted it. Please quote the actual offence you seem to still see? "Please?"

If Victor recanted can't you just let it go & not blame me for things even my accusers have recanted?

• I have been polite & most cooperative.
• Is there any thing I could do to make this situation that has never effected you personally more acceptable ?

SaintPain→ Here to help." 03:08, November 8, 2013 (UTC)