Reviewing edit histories recently I have seen that there is a bit of division among users as to what constitutes Notable Loot. Perhaps this is as good a time as any to form a consensus as to what is to be considered notable to be written into article policies. One thing I see the most of is debate over skill magazines. My personal take is that I wouldn't mind seeing them in the sections if they were placed in the area, but things such as 'It may be possible to find X magazine in X mailbox at this location.' I wouldn't. Perhaps weapons placed in the environment I wouldn't mind. Just nothing that spawns randomly. Message 04:49, November 14, 2011 (UTC)
- We agree that items such as random magazines and other low value items don't constitute "notable loot". There could be some variance allowed when the item is rare in the area where it is found, such as jalapeno peppers in Zion, (there are only 1 or 2 in the entire DLC, their lack is important to the hardcore player as making gecko kabobs require them), or important for a quest.DarthOrc 05:22, November 14, 2011 (UTC)DarthOrc
It may be helpful to lay out the criteria we're thinking of using. I'll start :-)
- Unique items.
- Rare items.
- Expensive weapons or items (arguable).
- Quest items.
- Not notable
- Anything which appears randomly.
- Low value weapons or items.
- Skills, perks, etc. should be ignored when deciding (Jury Rigging and Voracious Reader spring to mind).
Agree, disagree? We'd have to decide what constitutes rare, as you can get unlimited almost anything if you wait/sleep to reset merchants and enemies. I'd say anything you don't see often in a "normal" playthrough.
Where would you draw the line on value? In caps or usefulness? Super stimpak 150 caps, 10mm SMG 2000+ caps.
- My idea of notable loot is:
- Any unique or rare item whether it's a weapon, apparel, or miscellaneous item.
- Anything that increases stats (SPECIAL, skills, resistance, etc), like skill books, magazines, apparel or consumables. This does not include common items, like Wasteland settler outfit.
- A high tier weapon (brush gun, super sledge, anti-materiel rifle, etc.). This could also include good weapons for certain stages in the game, such a cowboy repeater in Primm (a mid level gun for a low level location).
- A reasonably large amount of ammunition (~30+ rounds).
- Loot that can be found in large sums in one area (such the 50+ Mentats found at the Forbidden Zone Dome).
- Crafting components (maybe?). Like jalapeño peppers for gecko kebabs and Cook-Cooks Fiend stew, bullets casings for making ammo, turpentine for tanning gecko hides, etc.}
- Items exclusive to an add-on (punga fruit, steel saw, cloud residue, MRE's, etc.)
- While not exactly "loot", encounters around that area (like random encounters for Fallout 3 or Wild Wasteland in Fallout: New Vegas).
- Thoughts? --Kastera (talk) 23:21, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Personally, I'd raise the requirement for what was considered a large amount of ammo, but this seems like a start to me. Message 23:35, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Mara, there should definitely be a higher amount for what is a notable amount of ammo. I don't like the ingredients/components thing though, nor do I like the wild wasteland or random encounter things, I feel the wild wasteland and random encounter things would belong in the notes section more than notable loot. Richie9999 23:45, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Kastera, I think your stat increase items would have to be all-or-nothing, for consistency and to avoid reverts, and may be too wide a category.
- I agree about the weapons. Using the tiers instead of caps value makes sense. The actual condition of the weapon is not notable.
- As Great Mara notes, I'd raise the amount of normal ammo to at least ~100+. Mini-nukes and similar rare ammo should always be noted.
- For crafting, how do we define a rare item, if plants can be reharvested over time and bullet casings are free from merchants? Is it based on a single pass through the area, or comparative scarcity in the game world?
- Do we note only items placed in the world, or also those carried by (re-spawning) enemies?
- Encounters should probably go in the Background, Layout or Notes sections, with any possible related Notable Loot added in this section.--FourWayDiablo(talk) 00:14, November 16, 2011 (UTC)
Something else I just noticed on some pages. Weapon repair kits. I myself don't consider them that notable since they're easily produced and materials for them are plentiful. But I dunno. Message 22:52, November 17, 2011 (UTC)
Weapons repair kits are notable loot early in the game, before the player can make them. So kits found at locations where the player is early in the game would be notable loot, others would not.DarthOrc 08:27, November 19, 2011 (UTC)DarthOrc
- But the only problem is:L how do we define an early game location. When do weapon repair kits ever stop being useful (in my opinion, never)? --Kastera (talk) 17:41, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
- If you put points into Repair you could make them in Goodsprings with random/bought items within 20 minutes of starting the game. Likewise, stimpaks and anything else which can be made or bought. I think it's too dependent on player stats and choices to be notable. Some players might like to sell loot and pay for repairs, instead.
- It seems the main criteria should possibly be rarity; a mini-nuke is rare, a weapon repair kit is not, for example. And, of course, an early-game location might be different for each player. --FourWayDiablo(talk) 23:54, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
- I still think it's prudent to list all the loot, a la this kind of treatment that the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages gives to some boxes. Would make good use of all the container pages we already have floating around, and it's not like we're worrying about space or anything. Everything is notable to somebody, and we could always make collapsable boxes like on the Oil Rig page. Nitty the Kitty! 16:29, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
- This might be of interest to the topic Help:Notable loot 23:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
I wouldn't see a problem listing all non-random loot in that sort of format. Just rename the section as Loot rather than Notable Loot. It could follow the organization of each game's Pip-Boy categories. E.g.:
|Room 1||Super sledge,
|Dapper gambler hat, Wrench||Auto-Inject Stimpack||Bobby pin,
Sensor module (2)
|Room 2||Fire axe||Combat helmet||Big Book of Science||Tin can,
Bottle caps (75)
- Doesn't leave much room for random loot, though. We already list things like gun lockers, because of the random loot they contain. I really think we should have random loot somewhere. >.> Nitty the Kitty! 01:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
- Where would we draw the line on random loot, though? I could imagine a GECK check for the possible variables in a gun locker (I'm on console, so it would be up to one of you >_<), but is someone going to do a check for every metal box and filing cabinet? The lists could be huge, unless we list as e.g. "Random loot - any Miscellaneous Item", and I'm not sure that really helps the reader. We may be back at the start of this topic, but instead deciding what counts as Notable Random Loot. --FourWayDiablo(talk) 15:47, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
As noted by Nitty, this format would allow for more information and a cleaner look, as any missing Item categories could be omitted:
If we note everything, how would we list locations like Allied Technologies offices, which are littered with cans, bottles, etc.? Count them all, or just say "There are many..."? O_o --FourWayDiablo(talk) 17:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)