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I've made a number of new templates that I would like input on rolling out onto pages. I would like to add all these templates to current pages (as specified) to further our presentation of information in the most user-friendly and organized way. The use of these templates, I feel, will help move us forward, keeping out content and presentation in front of other wikis. Let me hear what you think about adding these templates as proposed, and if you have ideas on helping with the implementation.
Rotating content
First is the {{Rotating content}} template, made for use on page-top quotes, which will rotate up to 30 quotes on a daily basis. I would like to add this template to the top of all pages that feature page-top quotes. Quotes featured at the top of pages should be the best quotes available, possibly limit them to the top 5 or so. Example (from Rose of Sharon Cassidy article):
Implementation of this would be eased by the use of a bot, so bot users, I'd like your input here.
Comments
- How exactly do you make the content rotate? And also, I'm not quite sure that I would be able to add this with my bot. The way I add things is via the find+replace function, or the prepend/append text function. This would be much easier done via Theodorico's bot as his is Pywikipedia and has many more tools and buttons. ~ Toci ~ Go ahead, make my day. 17:55, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
- The template uses a formula that checks what the current day of the month it is and references a numbered list of items (quotes in this case) to determine what to display. All you have to do is list the quotes or whatever, tell the template how many of them there are and it does the rest. It will change the shown item at midnight UTC. The Gunny
23:27, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- The template uses a formula that checks what the current day of the month it is and references a numbered list of items (quotes in this case) to determine what to display. All you have to do is list the quotes or whatever, tell the template how many of them there are and it does the rest. It will change the shown item at midnight UTC. The Gunny
- All this talk of bots makes me want to learn how to set one up, anyone willing to, send me a message or something. All of these templates look great by the way.
"Semper Invictus" 20:41, October 29, 2012 (UTC) - Looks fine to me. Now to get some people together adding some interesting quotes to pages. Best to do major characters first. Jspoel
22:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC) - I certainly wouldn't complain. Helps add a little variety to each page. :) GarouxBloodline
- 1) Forgive me my rudeness, but i don't like that "count" parameter. Maybe, you can make it like this :{{#if:{{{content1|}}}|{{#vardefine:count|1}}}}{{#if:{{{content2|}}}|{{#vardefine:count|2}}}}...and so forth. This way, template will be able to count contents automatically.
2) I'm strictly againsthiddenpartially accessible content. Why should we hide something from our visitors?
3) I spent my share of time working for Fo3/FNV Quotation project, and i can say that very few pages can benefit from this template. Yeah, some characters may use it, but locations and quests will stuck with {{Rotating content|count=1.... My prediction is: If where's no Notable quotes on a page, there will be no use for rotating content. IMHO, implementation is up to updating guidelines and waiting for editors to use it in a natural way.
As for the bot work: Well i'm going to argue against it (for a while), but at the end of the day i'll do as majority say, despite my personal likings. And yeah, i can do it, NP. --Theodorico (talk) 00:05, October 30, 2012 (UTC)- 1)The count parameter
can be changed like you suggest. That would be no problem.is changed, as you suggested.
2)I'll explain better. The use of this template would be on pages that have multiple quotes, most probably one at the page top and 5 down below in the notable quotes section. This template would be for the page top quote only. It would simply rotate ALL of the quotes (or the best 5 or so) that will all still be listed in the notable quotes section. It won't hide anything, think of it more like highlighting a different one of the notable quotes each day.
3)I can see the use of this on any page that has more than one quote. You can see both this template and the collapsible content template in use on Rose of Sharon Cassidy.
I hope that explains better. The Gunny 00:43, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- 1)The count parameter
Collapsible content
Second is the {{Collapsible content}} template. Made for use in article sections where a complete listing of items "clutters" the page. Intended uses are notable quotes sections and notable loot sections. A number of quotes or items (I'd recommend 5) can be made visible on the page at all times, while the rest can be accessed by clicking the "click to see more" link. Example:
- Content placed here will always show on page load. This section accepts wiki markup language.
- Content placed here will always be hidden on page load and only show when the "expand" link is clicked. This section also accepts wiki markup language.
Implementation of this would also be eased by the use of a bot. Please comment below.
Comments
- Good. Now we can add the skill magazines back again. Still think it was a mistake removing those. Jspoel 22:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- This idea being implemented would make me very happy. At the moment, we're forced to have restrictions on the notable loot listed here. Listing the items found in each locations along with adding in a randomized loot table for each container would help our wiki improve in content 10-fold. GarouxBloodline
- I said it before and i'll say it again: I'm all for this one, very needed template. But, I'm little bit worried about show/hide/style being accessible. Do we really want to allow this customization? I'd prefer to have it hard-coded, to ensure consistent visual appearance. --Theodorico (talk) 00:24, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I left the show/hide and style accessible in the template so it would be customizable. I envisioned this being used for other things than just notable quotes and loot lists. It can accept regular table formatting, and I can see a need for different show/hide text, depending on what the template is being used for. We *could* move these things to the .css, and just define a {{{class}}} parameter and detail what we need by classes in the .css. I'll think that over. Regular users would have to ask an admin to create a custom class for them to use it that way, and there aren't that many folks here that can do that. The Gunny 00:50, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I left the show/hide and style accessible in the template so it would be customizable. I envisioned this being used for other things than just notable quotes and loot lists. It can accept regular table formatting, and I can see a need for different show/hide text, depending on what the template is being used for. We *could* move these things to the .css, and just define a {{{class}}} parameter and detail what we need by classes in the .css. I'll think that over. Regular users would have to ask an admin to create a custom class for them to use it that way, and there aren't that many folks here that can do that. The Gunny
Crafting table
Third is a {{Crafting table}} template in a new format. Made for better and more intuitive presentation of crafting recipes on article pages. I would like to replace all existing crafting tables. Example:
Producing an item
| Materials: | Requirements: | Produces: | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Powder, pistol (3) Lead (2) |  | Repair: 25 |  | .357 magnum round (1) |
Breaking down an item
| Materials: | Requirements: | Produces: | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
.357 magnum round (1) | | Repair: 25 | | Powder, pistol (3) Lead (2) |
Implementation of this would also be eased by the use of a bot. Please comment below.
Comments
- Looks great and I'm all for it, but again, my bot is pretty useless when it comes to adding this, as it needs to be added to a specific part of a page. ~ Toci ~ Go ahead, make my day. 17:55, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
- This example is crafting 4 items to the magnum round right? Shouldn't it be the other way around then? Starting with the items left, .357 round to the right. And breakdown the other way around. Or am I missing something?
- Everything J just said. Looks great, though! GarouxBloodline
- I should have explained better. There is a parameter to tell the table whether it's a production table or breakdown table. The above table is a breakdown table. It also works in reverse, with the highlighted sections changing appropriately. The Gunny 23:21, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I should have explained better. There is a parameter to tell the table whether it's a production table or breakdown table. The above table is a breakdown table. It also works in reverse, with the highlighted sections changing appropriately. The Gunny
- Ok, looks fine to me then. Jspoel 00:03, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Looks really good! Great job, Gunny! I need to do some research, but i'm optimistic about bot-work on this one. If not by the bot then by the hands, but i'll do it. Where should i sign up? :) --Theodorico (talk) 00:40, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
VATS attack table
Last is the {{VATS attack table}} template, made to condense the {{Tl|Melee special attack table}} and {{Tl|Unarmed VATS}} templates into one template for ease of transposition. Example:
| Legend | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
 | - Type of attack |  | - Skill required | |
 | - Damage per attack in V.A.T.S. |  | - Action point cost | |
 | - Damage per action point |  | - Additional effects | |
| | | | | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Normal | 0 | 20 | 28 | 0.71 | none |
| Mauler | 50 | 10 | 38 | 0.26 | Knockdown chance |
- Note: Melee weapons do double normal damage in V.A.T.S.
This one, I plan on changing the pages manually, as there aren't that many to do. Of course, anyone with a bot is welcome to help here also.
Comments
- Sounds good. ~ Toci ~ Go ahead, make my day. 17:55, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Looks pretty and consistent with weapon comparion tables! Jspoel 22:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Would be a welcome addition into our article pages, me thinks. GarouxBloodline
Update
I'd like to thank everyone for their input. Since just about everyone's comments were positive on the suggested changes, we've gone ahead and started the implementation of these templates. I've done all the VATS attack tables, and with a massive amount of Theodorico's help, Theo, Gunner and I got all the crafting tables on pages. Here's where we're at now:
- Theo's working on implementing the collapsible content template for Notable Loot and Notable Quotes sections. He's come up with a shell template that looks like the way to go. His bot will probably be able to add the templates to pages, but any additional quotes or notable loot will have to be added by us editors. Anyone willing to help out who has a good handle on quotes (yup, I'm talking to you, Quote Project folks) or notable loot (Yay! We can add back in skill mags!) would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears on how we should go about this.
- The rotating content template that will be added to the page-top "featured quote" will come last. I'd like to have available all the quotes that may be added with the collapsible content template so we can choose the best 5 or so quotes to "feature" at the page top. We'll progress to this as soon as the collapsible content templates are added and the content filled out.
- I'm gonna go ahead and complete the conversion of all the other weapons/weapon mod/ammo tables to templates in the style of the new
{{Weapon comparison table}}template, with icons for table headers and greater content. I've had positive response to the look of the new tables and I'd like to make all the weapons/mods/ammo tables consistent with the new look.
Again, I'd like to thank everyone who gave us input, and especially Theodorico and Gunner for all the help with implementation. If you have any other ideas that would help us improve the presentation of content in the articles, changes to the templates or page structure, please feel free to post them here. I'm always open to anything that will improve the quality, quantity or presentation of the content we have in the articles. The Gunny 17:28, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
Update #2, Notable loot
OK, we're ready to add the notable content template to page notable loot and notable quote sections. This will mean that we can lift the limit on the number of quotes per page, and also that we have tons more room for notable loot. So that means we need to revisit the inclusion of skill mags in the notable loot, and any other items that were removed for "space considerations". Let's hash this out here and come to some kind of consensus of what to do. The Gunny 20:41, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
- Here's what I'd like to see:
- Notable loot going back to only including unique and non renewable resources. (This includes uniquely sized-items, and non-renewable resources only taking the vanilla game into account. For instance, we would still consider the plasma caster non-renewable, even though they're made as random drops in the OWB DLC.) I would also advise having a world/mini map showing the specific location of where you'd find each notable item in question.)
- Everything else I would advise to either be added into a separate list, where this template would be implemented, or we could create a thorough walkthrough section for each location page, which would include the listing of where to find each and every item, along with a random loot table to show what chances you have to get certain items out of storage compartments; such as trashcans. GarouxBloodline
- GarouxBloodline has discussed this with me before and I fully agree with what he has said. This is a good step forward as we are able to include more loot without using too much space (not that space was realistically ever a huge problem anyway). We can establish new criteria here, primarily in raising the limit of fixed location items and perhaps adding in skill magazines again amongst other things. I still need to think about this a bit more. --Skire (talk) 23:29, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
(←)
Reading all this, with wanting to add maps and chances of finding items, looks like a lot of work to me and I wonder who's going to do all that. I'm not really motivated for it anyway. I'm fairly satisfied with the loot that's added at this moment. Except for the skill magazines. I want those back in notable loot sections. People just want to know where you can get the fixed ones for free. And maybe a few more things, but I would need to check the GECK (again) to get some ideas. Jspoel 
00:53, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
- My take on it is that Notable Loot includes only loot that are notable. Nothing stops us from creating another section that would list all loot though. Limmiegirl Talk! ♪ 01:57, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
- I would try my best to help if I had access to the G.E.C.K. I downloaded it, however it seems I need to run it through the Fallout directory to use it properly. Anyways, I'm sure Fallout 4 will give us the technical editors needed to help us with vast projects such as this one is going to create. I adamantly believe this to be a necessary step for us to take. We are an encyclopedia, and the noting of each and every piece of loot is a big step into creating the most thorough Fallout wiki out there. (I want us in the future to be able to compete with the content quality found at the UESP wiki.) GarouxBloodline
- I suggest we start a separate thread for random loot/creatures/characters. Current coverage of that topic is insufficient (not to say worse), and we should make an effort to improve it, while we have time before next game comes out. --Theodorico (talk) 22:30, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
- I would try my best to help if I had access to the G.E.C.K. I downloaded it, however it seems I need to run it through the Fallout directory to use it properly. Anyways, I'm sure Fallout 4 will give us the technical editors needed to help us with vast projects such as this one is going to create. I adamantly believe this to be a necessary step for us to take. We are an encyclopedia, and the noting of each and every piece of loot is a big step into creating the most thorough Fallout wiki out there. (I want us in the future to be able to compete with the content quality found at the UESP wiki.) GarouxBloodline
(←) Let's keep the focus for right now on what we should add back in just with the implementation of the new template. We can (and will) work towards the other goals like container contents and loot probability tables at a later date. For right now I want to make a list of only those things we all agree to add to the pages as they currently are. Let's start that list:
- Skill mags (fixed location only). —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Gunny (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
This may sound crazy, but what if we'll make containers notable? Something like this:
- 3 Ammunition boxes, containing random ammunition
- 10 Vault dressers, containing random clothing, including Vault jumpsuits
I don't know how about you guys, but i've peeked into every garbage can in both recent games... just to make sure, that there's nothing interesting in there. To me containers are notable by themselves even if their contents aren't. --Theodorico (talk) 01:04, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
Update #3
Ok. First off a recap. Crafting tables have been placed on each page with recipes. VATS attack tables have replaced the existing tables on FNV weapons pages. I made a new {{Ammo comparison table}} and they're placed on FNV ammo pages. I'm currently working on a restructuring of the weapons overview pages, (see [[User:The Gunny/sandbox5|FO3 in progress here]]).
The rotating templates for page top quotes are up. What we need here is some editors to go through the quotes (we populated the templates with all the quotes from the notable quotes sections) and make sure all the available quotes are either listed, or deemed not worthy of page top rotation. Volunteers? A short project? Maybe a Blitz? If you're looking to help out, a good place to start would be the Fallout_Wiki:Fallout_3_and_New_Vegas_quotations_project and Fallout_Wiki:Fallout_1_and_2_Quotations_Project for pages that have quotes on them.
The expandable sections for notable quotes and notable loot are also in place. Those of you going through the quotes might want to check to make sure all the quotes in the rotating list at the page top are also listed here. Remember, the page top template will only show one different quote a day, so let's make sure all the quotes are in the notable quotes section.
Finally, as for the notable loot section, I agree, it should stay as only "notable" loot. We are working on plans to add another loot section to pages that will list all fixed loot and random/container loot. It will probably be a collapsible table, or a table with collapsible sections that will list all the containers and then each loot with the chance of spawn. This will be a huge HUGE project, and we'll need a database dump from the GECK to do it right. This is for down the road, preferable before the next game is out so we can work out the kinks and get it right in time.
The only question right now is the re-addition of fixed skill mags to the notable loot section. Space is not a consideration, but notability is. I know there are some folks here that want them back. Can we meet on a compromise to add them back in for now until we can get the new loot sections up and running? I don't want to have to do yet another vote on this so let's see if we can come to a consensus right here. Does anyone object to adding back in fixed location skill mags on a temporary basis, or should we go ahead and reopen the discussion about notable loot? The Gunny 02:01, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
This all sounds good to me, but I can't really help out with the probability of random loot project because I don't play on PC. I'll definitely help with inserting the templates though if you want help. "Semper Invictus" 02:06, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm in favor of putting the skill magazines in the notable loot section. I'll think about working on that other loot section. Jspoel 03:00, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
- This happens every day - people wants skill magazines, while we have better things to do than constantly remove them. Let's put them back. --Theodorico (talk) 09:55, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
Update #4
Theodorico has made a wonderful template to add sound files and custom styling to inline quotes. It works anyplace that the Quotation template can work, but is styled to fit in normal article text without interfering with the line spacing, and you can attach a sound file of the quote for flavor. Major props to Theo for all the work.
On to any additions to notable loot. There has been little response to my query. As it stands, without much resistance, we will add skill mags (fixed location only) back to the notable loot lists on a temporary basis until further work is done on loot lists and container lists. I will leave this for folks to ponder for a day, and then will add this into the notable loot guidelines. Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Oh, and Fallout 3 weapons is completely done with the major rework. I plan on doing the same for all weapons overview pages and any ancillary weapon page tables. Let me know if you see a weapons/ammo/weapon mod page that has a table that does not have the new style icon table headers, I'll add it to the list. The Gunny 17:50, November 25, 2012 (UTC)
In the case of skill magazines, I must remain adamant with the fact that skill magazines are much too common. They are found in nearly every location within the vanilla game/DLC's, and they are sold by nearly every merchant. If it were decided that skill magazines should be notable, may I suggest only making note of the rarer variants? These would include, and only include: Programmer's Digest, Meeting People, and Locksmith's Reader. These are still fairly common, however their lack of fixed locations would place them under an uncommon loot category. 
Some Assembly Required! 05:32, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with GB here, the magazines aren't really notable at all. Limmiegirl Talk! ♪ 13:06, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
Concerning {{Inline quote}}: Now, you can check it on Liberty Prime. Take a look, and tell me if you like it or hate it? I'm going to convert every page to use it, but I'll hold back my bot untill i'm sure everyone is happy with it. --Theodorico (talk) 22:36, November 26, 2012 (UTC)